When a pastor moves churches it gives him time to reflect
Peter Baker was senior pastor at Highfields Church, Cardiff, for 18 years.
He was inducted as the new pastor of Lansdowne Baptist Church, Bournemouth, on June 8. We carry an edited version of an interview he gave to award-winning BBC journalist Roy Jenkins.
RJ: To what extent is the Highfields we see today, a church of some 800 adults with many ministries, the Highfields you dreamed of making it when you came?
PB: I came from a church in Essex. I had no dreams. Wales is where I’m from. Sian and I were coming home. I had values for ministry which I still hold. But I had no 100-day plan. I just knew I wanted to serve a church family like Highfields.
RJ: How would you describe Highfields now?
PB: We are a diverse church family. We are multicultural and in a sense multi-denominational. There are people at different ages and different stages. The challenge has been to keep the main thing the main thing, and hold together in the non-essentials.
Highfields started in a struggle. When I came it still did not have its own home. We rented various premises. But folk were responding to a call to begin a new congregation. I came from a well set up church situation. It was tough to leave that behind and start again. The church is people, not bricks and mortar, so we learned some good lessons. But, practically speaking, it made a great difference to acquire our own building as a centre from which we could launch ministries into the community.
We inherited a derelict Presbyterian church. In fact one of our leaders turned up with a shotgun to get rid of the pigeons roosting here! But phase by phase we rebuilt. I remember Saturday mornings, working hard with older women who were wielding sledge hammers!
RJ: The church took risks. How much of that spirit remains?
PB: Every generation has to take risks. Perhaps they are different risks now. But there was that spirit of mission, of permission to fail, to experiment. I want to say to a new generation, ‘Keep taking risks for God’. New people came and brought new vision and resources and helped to continue that same spirit.
RJ: Highfields may be the biggest church in Wales now. Is there one key to growth?
PB: There is no one key. But there are some major principles which stand out. First, there is a basic confidence that God’s truth and God’s presence are living and active. This finds expression in confidence in preaching Scripture. Second, there is a generous heart. Some churches are defined by what they are against. We need to be defined by being for the good news of Jesus. Third, there is the ability to see that what God is doing is big and wider than just us and to serve that bigger vision.
RJ: As a large church, how do you avoid feeling self-contained and that you don’t need other churches?
PB: It is very important to keep serving others. God has blessed us so that we might bless others. We have tried to invest in other churches. Sometimes we’ve sent 20 or 30 people to help other works. We have constantly tried to give ourselves away.
RJ: For all kinds of reasons people are attracted to large churches from smaller churches. How do you feel about that?
PB: Sadly it is a fact of life. Most people don’t leave churches lightly. Sometimes a larger congregation provides a place of recovery for hurting Christians.
RJ: You trained as pastor and preacher. But, with this large congregation, how do you see yourself as a leader now?
PB: I have had to learn on the job. I have come to realise that I have never been trained for 25% of my weekly job. We now have a church staff of 14 people. But the people in the leadership team have tried to make sure that I always have the time to focus first and foremost on preaching and pastoring. Once a church gets larger, you need high-level leadership skills. I have been blessed through others around me. I hope what I have learned are leadership skills rather than mere ‘management’ skills. I hope I’m not the kind of person who feels he must have the last word.
A good leader needs the ability to listen to all individuals and groups, and yet still feel that the leadership team can make the call. Leadership can become lonely. I have experienced that a little. You have to have a certain degree of detachment in order to make the tough calls. To be a good leader I needed to be less involved and yet more influential, less hands-on and more setting the right ethos and direction.
RJ: What has delighted you at Highfields?
PB: There have been many delights. Ministry is demanding, but glorious too. The ‘successes’ of the church have been frequent. By ‘successes’ I’m talking about people coming to faith, about people getting baptised and joining the church. I’m talking about the church sending our workers to Africa and South America. I think about a number of generations of students who have been shaped through the ministry at Highfields and who are now going on with Christ in adult life and taking their influence into the workplace and the community. I’m thinking about being with people both in times of grief and times of rejoicing. It’s an exhausting business but a real privilege. If you don’t love people you can’t do the job.
RJ: What about any regrets?
PB: We can always do things better. Certain things I wish we could have got to quicker as a church. We could have taken a few more risks. But, actually, Highfields is a remarkable church.
RJ: How has the ministry changed you?
PB: At 34, when Sian and I arrived here, I was very much a young preacher. I think I’ve grown in being able to understand what the key questions are when we come to handle Scripture. As a man I’ve grown too. I lost my father and my father-in-law. We have faced some tough things. These things have left scars but they have been helpful. Someone has said: ‘You should never trust a leader without a limp’. There’s truth in that.
I have done a lot of travelling, visiting mission partners across the world. That has given me a wider perspective. At present we are developing partnerships with large congregations in Arizona and in Seoul, South Korea. They wish to help us reach out to the very tough society of 21st-century Wales.
RJ: You are leaving Wales at a time of great need.
PB: That is very poignant for me. I came with a real sense of vision for Wales. Highfields has now become a strategic church in Wales. So to leave now is very difficult. But I feel God’s call to move on. I was preaching a series on Elijah last summer. I was thinking about Elijah moving from a national ministry, often addressing the king, to take a back seat, to go to the Kerith Ravine and then to stay with the widow in Zarephath. As I was preaching I felt God say to me: ‘Your time here in Highfields is over. It’s time to move on’. I felt this so strongly that I went home and told Sian. This move is simply me seeking to be obedient to God.
RJ: How is Wales now, as you see it?
PB: There is a dearth of good Christian leadership and of churches which are prepared to see what the main thing is and stick to it. Yes, there are churches closing. But I can see that even in some of the small churches there is huge potential if they will stick to the main thing, which is reaching out with the gospel of Jesus saying, ‘Come to me for life’.
It is hard to leave Wales, but I was speaking about Moses’ final words to Israel recently, before he departed. His main thrust is, if I may paraphrase: ‘Yes, I’ve been your leader, but God is your life’. I believe the best years of Highfields are still to come under someone else’s leadership.
