en interviews Richard Hagan and Matthew Roberts who moved to Canterbury and York respectively to plant new churches
Ten years ago this month, Matthew Roberts and Richard Hagan moved with their young families to York and Canterbury them to plant new churches. en asked about the story of Trinity Church York and Emmanuel Church Canterbury.
en: Why did you plant a new church?
Richard Hagan: I had been an Assistant Minister in Bournemouth and was on the committee for a local convention that had just had Rico Tice to come and lead a mission. Wonderfully, about 50 churches joined together for it. That was such an encouragement, but afterwards it got us thinking about areas of the country where the light of the gospel shone less brightly. For example, my native Kent had a population of 1.4 million and, despite the presence of some great churches, the vast majority of Kent’s population were heading for the grave with no warning of judgement or offer of salvation. To plant a new church might raise up and mobilise workers to change that in some small way.
Matthew Roberts: I’ve long been convinced that mission can’t be separated from the growth of Jesus’ church, and given the lack of gospel-preaching churches in England, both growing existing churches and starting new ones have to be part of that. One of the great needs of our country today is for new faithful churches in pretty much every town and city. That is a long way off, but it’s been very exciting to be a small part of it coming a little closer in York.
en: How did it all start?
Richard Hagan: Two couples we already knew lived in Canterbury and invited us to come over and start a new church. Richard talked to their current pastor about the idea, and he was positive. My wife Corinne and I read Risk is Right by John Piper. We realised that the worst that could happen if the church folded was some financial loss and loss of face. So we thought it was worth a try. Soon the launch team grew from six adults to nine, and just over £10,000 was pledged.
Matthew Roberts: We moved to York with a church of five – me, my wife Kate, and our three children! Critically, we had the support of lots of other churches, both locally through the Yorkshire Gospel Partnership and nationwide through the International Presbyterian Church, and more widely as well. I asked everyone I knew to put me in touch with anyone they knew in York – Christian or not – and by God’s grace we had 13 people at our first service ten weeks later. Three of those were ‘lent’ by nearby churches – one Anglican, one Baptist! – to get us off the ground. Our services had not much to recommend them except God’s word. We squeezed into our front room, and we didn’t even try singing, because we had no musicians. So it was by God’s grace and his word that we grew.
en: What were your biggest challenges?
Richard Hagan: For us the biggest challenge was to keep our head when every week was so up and down. It felt like being in a washing machine on a merry-go-round: new people arriving every week to check us out, a steady stream of people leaving because we were too this or not enough of that, regular venue uncertainty through opposition from liberal Anglicans, constant money pressures, using a school piano that sounded like a pub piano, the list goes on! But for me personally, the biggest pressure was of my own doing: too often I worshipped the idol of success. If things didn’t go well, I’d get really gloomy. If things did, I’d get proud.
Matthew Roberts: I think we had an easier ride in York than Richard and the church in Canterbury did early on, in that no-one tried to make our lives difficult. But the sheer hard work of ministry was a real surprise. Labouring to teach and pastor a church week in week out, combined with the ferocious amount of admin which has to be done, was much harder than I expected, and my gifts at doing both proved far less than I had hoped! But then I think that Kate has always had to work harder than me, with services, children’s work and constant entertaining happening in our home from the beginning.
en: Any encouragements along the way?
Matthew Roberts: How could there not be? Like every church, we get to proclaim and worship the living God every week, and that is a privilege that never fades. Of course, the most wonderful thing is seeing how Christ transforms people by his Spirit. We have been privileged to see a constant trickle of people coming to Christ for the first time and many more deeply changed by him. There have of course been sad times when people who seemed to have come to faith have then fallen away; but far more people are cause for great rejoicing when they speak of and live out what the Lord has done for them. We’ve been privileged to have some amazing, faithful Christians in our church from very early on. And of course, it’s fantastic seeing people who were shaky Christians, or not Christians at all, when we first knew them, now bringing up their own children to know and love Christ.
Richard Hagan: There is something very special about starting so small and vulnerable. All we could do was pray about obstacles and opportunities that we faced. We didn’t have enough people or money to seize every opportunity. And we didn’t have enough influence or power to overcome every obstacle. So the only way was up – in prayer! At our weekly prayer meetings we always began by noticing answers to prayer from the previous week. And there were some stunning answers to prayer. They were great times of urgency and rejoicing. What’s more, we all felt we were actually taking a risk for the glory of God – it was exciting!
en: How are things now?
Richard Hagan: Things seem much more stable now (though our Father always likes to send turbulence when we feel too stable!). We have about 120 adult partners and a good number of children. It has been a joy to be a ‘win, build, send’ church without too much effort on the sending – people once at Emmanuel are now all over the world.
One excitement has been to see plans develop for a Folkestone church plant. Over the years many have made the 35-minute journey to us from Folkestone, and we have had a Growth Group in Folkestone in recent years for them to meet midweek. Our current Assistant Minister, Jonny Sutton, is due to move next summer, ready to launch in Folkestone in September 2020. Through the recently established Kent Gospel Partnership, we hope to see many more churches planted or revitalised. Our prayer is 2 Thessalonians 3:1: ‘Finally, brothers, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honoured.’
Matthew Roberts: It never stays the same! Numbers vary constantly, as York is quite a fluid city; recently we’ve been about 130 on a full Sunday including children. We have a wonderful committed membership of about 65 adults, and we now have two other elders and three deacons who serve the church superbly. Over the last year we’ve been trying to up our game in how we teach and train our children, which is of course both a joy and a challenge. We are only tinkering around the edges of the evangelism we could and should be doing, and it’s a constant challenge to make sure that we don’t ever think we’ve ‘arrived’ as a church.
en: What message would you give to anyone thinking of being involved in a church plant?
Richard Hagan: Go for it! We’re so risk averse in this country. Our brothers and sisters around the world put us to shame!
Matthew Roberts: I certainly echo that! At the same time, I think some young Christians (perhaps this once included me) think that there’s something better about being in a church plant than an established church. If you think that, you’ll be disappointed – once a church is planted, it is of course a church like any other, though almost certainly a small and weak and not yet very effective one. So I would say, what matters is that you’re committed to Christ and therefore to his church. If he has placed you in a well-established church, commit to it and serve Christ there with all your heart; and if he places you in a new church, do the same. In either that will require humility, patience and faithful hard work; probably more so in a new church!
en: How are you celebrating your tenth anniversary?
Richard Hagan: We plan to celebrate on 19-20th October and would love everyone to come and join us. We hope to have a hog roast and plenty of slides up from across the years. See our website for more details.
Matthew Roberts: Us too! And the same weekend. Though we hadn’t thought of a hog roast… it’s a good idea though, so perhaps we should. We would love as many as possible of our old friends, and new ones too, to come and join us for our service on 20th October.
