Dr Andrew Ollerton is a theologian, pastor, author and presenter who likes to “make complex ideas simple and relevant”. He lives in Wales and regularly speaks at conferences, festivals and churches, and films video content on locations around the world. He recently developed a new edition of The Bible Course with Bible Society. Here, he is interviewed by en reviews editor John Woods.
en: When was the first time that you began to find Christianity compelling?
AO: I was brought up by parents who made it compelling. In my family life, faith was not just a Sunday experience or a creed but was lived out. I credit my parents for that. I did have moments in my teenage and adult years when I had a crisis of faith. When I went to university to study geography I bumped into issues around the reconciling of science and faith which troubled me. What made Christianity compelling at that time included books I read, but also people I met. One professor had a PhD in science and in theology. The fact that he brought those two horizons together and embodied them was compelling.
en: You are making a habit of writing well- received books for the general reader – what led you to adopt this format?
AO: I am by nature someone who likes to see the big picture. The Bible Course that ranges over the whole of Scripture – Genesis to Revelation – and The Romans Course that ranges over a letter as big and complex as Romans, suit my style. I have had time in the academy and as a pastor, and I wanted to bring those two spheres together. I have always wanted to be a human bridge with a foot in the academy and a foot in the church so that good things can travel in both directions. I remember going to visit Ephesus, where you can see the ancient ruins and reading about Paul in the Hall of Tyrannus, where he taught the word of God daily and people came to him. I love that picture of ordinary people coming to hear God’s word unpacked.
en: Your latest book – God’s Book: An Honest Look at the Bible’s 7 Toughest Topics – is on seven key apologetic questions. What prompted you to deal with these seven questions in the format of the overall narrative structure of Scripture?
AO: There is something about “staying in your lane”. Others have written great books that have tackled apologetics in the abstract; I wanted to address these topics in the concrete narrative of Scripture. The Bible Course has cleared the road for people to navigate the Biblical narrative, but in doing so it has caused people to bump into moral and apologetic issues that need addressing. This book faces those issues head-on as they arise in the Biblical context.
en: Why did you choose these seven questions?
AO: They have been chosen from and for our time. If you were in medieval Britain or some parts of the world today, these may not be the issues that trouble you, but they seem to be the ones that we are facing in the UK today.
Because I was going from Genesis to Revelation, I wanted to see what questions arise in the different epochs. The topics almost picked themselves as Scripture collided with contemporary culture.
In our culture we have a growing group of people who want the Bible to work for them. They are sometimes stuck; they do find some parts of the Bible difficult or confusing, but that is not because they are opposed to the Bible, they just need some help. So, when I was writing the book I had two people in mind – an ancient person and a modern person.
The modern person I always had in mind is Danny. He is someone I helped in my early days as a pastor. I saw that when God’s Spirit illuminates somebody through regeneration, even if they have had very little educational background, if they want to know the truth then God will make it work for them.
The ancient person I have in mind is the Ethiopian Eunuch, which is a story I have lived with over the past two and a half years. This man is travelling home having tried to visit the temple in Jerusalem. He certainly hasn’t found what he is looking for. He is reading the prophet Isaiah. What strikes me is that he is not trying to be difficult or antagonistic; he wants the Bible to make sense, but he is stuck in Isaiah’s story. I wanted to be like Philip in that story, helping people to find their way along the road to faith in Jesus.
en: You seem to be able to take complex ideas and present them in a simple way. What made you do that and how do you manage to be simple without being simplistic?
AO: It is an art rather than a science and it is the space that I have chosen to occupy. I believe that Scripture has been written for ordinary people, and I wanted to find a way for anybody to enter its world with understanding.
I am trying to be simple by putting complex ideas in a simple manner without being simplistic. At times that has meant that I have had to outline more than one view on a matter. I have also tried to give the sceptical a strong voice in the book to articulate accurately what they believe, so that I do not set up straw men that are easy to knock down.
en: In some of the chapters you acknowledge that some reflections are tentative. Is apologetics stronger for being willing to leave some loose ends?
AO: Scripture reveals God’s truth but not in an exhaustive way. Not least because Scripture says: “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us” (Deut. 2v29). Scripture speaks of some things in a more hidden way, and in other ways speaks in a way that is more fully revealed. Paul speaks of the things of first importance, but also of matters of conscience that appear to be less clear in his mind. There is mystery as well as revealed truth.
The Reformers were accused of hiding behind the language of mystery; mystery can be a smokescreen. I have tried to avoid using the word mystery when there was clarity, but I didn’t want to say it. Overall, when I have used the word mystery, I have tried to be honest. There are matters where God has revealed enough for us to have a conversation about them, but not enough for us to reach a hard-line decision
en: You adopt an irenic tone in answering these key questions. How important is to have an apologetic lifestyle as well as apologetic arguments?
AO: The irenic tone is because I want to unite people around Scripture rather than divide them. It is right to draw a dotted line between the things we say on paper and the people we are.
In the letters to my children, I was trying to say to myself, how does issue work itself out in the world in the kind of people that God has called us to be? Academic, rational, apologetic thought can stop short of being useful and embodied. I wanted to speak at street level to address how truth gets grounded and expressed.
John Calvin said that the Scriptures are like spectacles to see the world through. We need to think about the way that we can see the world through the lens of Scripture.
en: I was interested to see you write a letter to one of your children at the end of each chapter. Were reports of a “Quiet Revival” going on amongst younger people part of what prompted you to include these letters?
AO: The book has come at a good time for two reasons:
First, there is an uptick in interest in the Bible. The Bible is trending again, both in popular culture and in society. There are many young people who are turning to the Bible as a way of making sense of life. However, there is another side to this, when young people, who have been trained and discipled by the world rather than by the truth of Scripture, find that they encounter problems when they get into the Bible. The Bible is both the opportunity and the challenge. In the Quiet Revival research, of 18–35-year-olds going to church, 30% of them said that when they read and think about certain parts of the Bible it undermines their faith. I find this alarming, and I therefore feel that the Quiet Revival, far from being a sign that everything is going in the right direction, is saying that there is everything to play for.
en: How would you like to see the book used?
AO: I hope ordinary people will read it. My hope is that groups of people journey through it, in small groups or whole churches. I am developing some online content to make the most of the book. Some preachers might plan to preach through the questions. I also hope that the book will start conversations on these issues. One of the reasons for including the letters to my children was to model the kind of conversations I hope that parents and youth leaders might have with young adults.
Before I went to university these seven issues were things I had never heard taught in church. This meant that the first time I had to face these issues it was with sceptics, who were targeting the Bible. I hope that this book will help young people at a similar stage in life to be equipped to confidently wrestle with these issues.
en: If our readers read your book and wanted to take a step further in apologetics, what would you advise them?
AO: That is a good question. What I anticipate with the book is that it will not be embraced evenly by all readers. There will be some of the seven topics which will require further thought. That is why I signposted to introductory and more advanced reading. I also hope the book will be a good model of how to think about these issues.
en: Does the book have a soundtrack?
AO: The lyric that has always been my prayer in my work is by Matt Redman:
Let your Word move in power.
Let what’s dead come to life.
We are here for you.
Whenever I am praying, that is the refrain that often comes to my mind.
You can read the review of God’s Book here.
